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Hold Person - No Coup de Grace? [Archive] - TrogWorld

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Protoss119
10-11-2005, 01:44 PM
When you cast Hold Person on an enemy, they're considered helpless. Shouldn't you be able to Coup de Grace the held person? Sleep considers the enemy helpless as well, and you can Coup de Grace with that, so shouldn't you be able to do so against a held person as well? Then again, with the already excessive use of Hold Person today, allowing Coup de Grace to be comboed with it would deem it unbalancing.

In case you don't remember what Coup de Grace is, when you attack a helpless - sleeping, held, or overall immoble - person, you can perform an action called Coup de Grace. With it, you can score an automatic hit and, according to D&D rules, the victim must make a Fortitude Save (DC 15 + Damage done) or die. It provokes an AOO because it focuses on a specific part of the victim's body.

:shoot: :shoot: :shoot: :insta: :insta: :insta: :insta: :insta: = Glee

Almuric
10-11-2005, 05:12 PM
I think that it would be unbalancing. You're probably right that it makes sense to work when you're held though.

Felonious Monk
10-11-2005, 07:16 PM
CdG only works on creatures of less than 5 HD.

JYAP
10-11-2005, 08:11 PM
I never cared anyways.

Protoss119
10-12-2005, 01:13 PM
Neither did I for a while, but it's interesting to consider.

Almuric
10-12-2005, 06:45 PM
CdG only works on creatures of less than 5 HD.

Well, knowing that makes all the difference. Let Hold Person have it!

JYAP
10-12-2005, 06:57 PM
ROFL
:D

Almuric
10-13-2005, 03:17 PM
Has anyone tested to see if it actually already does? I mean no one on EB is going to be less then 5HD.

Protoss119
10-13-2005, 04:26 PM
It's something to look into, I'm sure.

~looks evilly at BotD L4-5 players~

Almuric
10-14-2005, 03:47 PM
Maybe I'll do a server wipe and lower the start level to 3! :devil:

JYAP
10-14-2005, 06:37 PM
Only if I'm a DM. Since that isn't likely...

Halfwingseen
10-14-2005, 09:16 PM
Al do a server wipse and start at lvl 1 make those mages work for it man

Protoss119
10-15-2005, 01:03 PM
What have I done?

JYAP
10-15-2005, 04:42 PM
I don't know. What have you done?

Halfwingseen
10-15-2005, 08:33 PM
al that wa a joke and um hold person issnt coup de grace for one reason



coup de grace is a strike on an unaware opponant and if u are held u are merely paralyzed therefore still have mental and sensoral function therefore can mental prepare for the attack and are not unaware just so ya know ^_^

Almuric
10-16-2005, 08:15 AM
I would never do a server wipe unless I actually did something to the mod worthwhile.

Felonious Monk
10-19-2005, 06:27 PM
al that wa a joke and um hold person issnt coup de grace for one reason



coup de grace is a strike on an unaware opponant and if u are held u are merely paralyzed therefore still have mental and sensoral function therefore can mental prepare for the attack and are not unaware just so ya know ^_^

Ummm... no. A CdG is when you go up to that guy that's chained up on the ground and chop his head off. It doesn't matter if he sees you or not since he can't do anything about it. Same thing with Hold Person: can't move, can't defend yourself, end up in itty bitty pieces.

Mind you, in PnP you can make a CdG against anything that is considered "helpless" (paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy), but it is handled differently. The attacker takes a full round action to deal a blow that automatically hits and criticals. If the person being CdG'ed survives, they have to make a fortitude save (DC = 10 + dmg dealt) or die. Sneak and death attack damage counts, making rogues very effective at this kind of thing. Ceatures that cannot be criticaled can not be CdG'ed and attempting a CdG prevokes an AoO.

Halfwingseen
10-21-2005, 08:42 PM
al that wa a joke and um hold person issnt coup de grace for one reason



coup de grace is a strike on an unaware opponant and if u are held u are merely paralyzed therefore still have mental and sensoral function therefore can mental prepare for the attack and are not unaware just so ya know ^_^

Ummm... no. A CdG is when you go up to that guy that's chained up on the ground and chop his head off. It doesn't matter if he sees you or not since he can't do anything about it. Same thing with Hold Person: can't move, can't defend yourself, end up in itty bitty pieces.


*cough* nerd *cough* but i take ur word for it

Mind you, in PnP you can make a CdG against anything that is considered "helpless" (paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy), but it is handled differently. The attacker takes a full round action to deal a blow that automatically hits and criticals. If the person being CdG'ed survives, they have to make a fortitude save (DC = 10 + dmg dealt) or die. Sneak and death attack damage counts, making rogues very effective at this kind of thing. Ceatures that cannot be criticaled can not be CdG'ed and attempting a CdG prevokes an AoO.

Felonious Monk
10-22-2005, 01:41 AM
al that wa a joke and um hold person issnt coup de grace for one reason



coup de grace is a strike on an unaware opponant and if u are held u are merely paralyzed therefore still have mental and sensoral function therefore can mental prepare for the attack and are not unaware just so ya know ^_^

Ummm... no. A CdG is when you go up to that guy that's chained up on the ground and chop his head off. It doesn't matter if he sees you or not since he can't do anything about it. Same thing with Hold Person: can't move, can't defend yourself, end up in itty bitty pieces.


*cough* nerd *cough* but i take ur word for it

Mind you, in PnP you can make a CdG against anything that is considered "helpless" (paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy), but it is handled differently. The attacker takes a full round action to deal a blow that automatically hits and criticals. If the person being CdG'ed survives, they have to make a fortitude save (DC = 10 + dmg dealt) or die. Sneak and death attack damage counts, making rogues very effective at this kind of thing. Ceatures that cannot be criticaled can not be CdG'ed and attempting a CdG prevokes an AoO.


Maybe so, but at least I can quote correctly. ;)

JYAP
10-22-2005, 06:05 AM
(Coup de Graces everyone in topic)

Protoss119
10-22-2005, 09:14 PM
~matrix dodges Coup De Grace~

Almuric
10-23-2005, 06:33 AM
Sounds like this one is done.