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TFK_Ishamael
11-20-2003, 03:05 PM
Atm there doesnt seem to be much point to having fortresses, they just annoy new ppl by killing them before they enter arena, or just by increasing the time they spend walking between plane and arena. If you intend on keeping them, perhaps make it so that it is worthwhile to invade someones fort - currently it is certain death for no reward, since the ele dmg kills u. Perhaps make it so that if you reach other sie of fort u can open chest with gold inside or something? the amount of gold depending on how many ppl r on the other team so that if u were alone on server u wouldnt be able to get loadsa easy gold.

TFK

Bounty Hunter
11-21-2003, 06:35 AM
It is posible to invade fortress. You do get damage but it is not that high that it will kill you direct. And damage is there so that people donīt spam other teams fortress and kill them before they get out and buff.
And the long walk is there too to give the chance to winning team to rest. If you would reach the battlefield quick after death then you would kill the person that killed you for sure only cause that person was hurt or out of buffs. That is not fair.
Things are in works to give info that you need to buy the armour first. But since people donīt like to read books then it will be their fault if their fortress kills them. You can sell gear for same ammount as for how much you bought it and that is only for that reason. That you can resell your other gear you bought and buy an armour first when you realize that you need it.

WNxSammer-X
11-21-2003, 06:39 AM
I like your idea TFK but well... I can stand in an enemy base for about 30 minutes at a time... And I'm a wiz lol. Would be REAL easy to get to one part of it for the gold. I say it'd be real cool if we stuck some elementals in there or something to guard them.. then it would be partialy challenging :razz: :insta: :beer:

Almuric
11-21-2003, 07:05 AM
You know Sammer...that elemental "guard" is a decent idea. The fortresses have several purposes. If you are willing to risk death from the damage of an enemy plane you get first shot at its minions coming out for battle. Plus, without the fortresses there would be no way to "encourage" everyone to purchase their armor. Also, without the fortresses where would I put the door to the elite store?

TFK_Ishamael
11-21-2003, 10:24 AM
What i meant was that atm there isnt any point in invading the fortress. . . most ppl buff in their plane, so it doesnt give u any advantage, and just gives u a disadvantage cos of the elemental dmg-so if u added some reward for invading fort successfully perhaps there would be more point to invade. .


TFK

Almuric
11-21-2003, 10:39 AM
Hmmmmm....maybe I can change the xp script to give bonus xp for killing someone in their fortress.

What do you guys think?

WNxSammer-X
11-21-2003, 02:03 PM
No bonus xp... Real easy to catch someone off guard in there fort... Maybe more money though because you were closer to what would be like there planes bank... Maybe figure a script that if you broke into there "bank" from the fort you get more money per kill untill the map change or something... But of course the bank would have a unkncockable lock that you would need a rogue to pick :grin: .. Give them more uses

KamaCleric
11-24-2003, 12:23 AM
Things are in works to give info that you need to buy the armour first. But since people donīt like to read books then it will be their fault if their fortress kills them. You can sell gear for same ammount as for how much you bought it and that is only for that reason. That you can resell your other gear you bought and buy an armour first when you realize that you need it.

You can always put the elemental damage adjustments on an item for the creature armor slot, then write a script to give that to a player when they choose their team. No need to worry about them buying the armor, and you can then lower the starting money and put on ILR as well, if you want.

Right now though, why buy the armor when you can buy everything else and still have plenty to spare? And the elemental damage isn't so much that you can't just run through and live anyways.

Bounty Hunter
11-24-2003, 03:50 AM
KamaCleric there you are wrong. Elemental damage is not much for clerics, mages and rangers that cast endure elements. But try running with a rogue for example. Fortress will not harm you much but your spawn will take half of your life almost. Being a rouge with low hp ever hp you lose hurts. Especially if it is 20-40 damage.
As players gain money they wil upgrade their armours. First get normal then +1 then +2 and so on. But I will leave this idea to Geno to explore. Maybe we can add something diffrent then armour for free that gives protection and lower the starting money.

Almuric
11-24-2003, 07:05 AM
Another issue that's being missed by just not buying the armor is you're no longer immune to the area effect damage that a caster from your team may cause. Currently you can just stand in the middle of a combat and let your mage fireball your enemies and not worry about being hurt.

KamaCleric
11-24-2003, 11:41 PM
KamaCleric there you are wrong. Elemental damage is not much for clerics, mages and rangers that cast endure elements. But try running with a rogue for example. Fortress will not harm you much but your spawn will take half of your life almost. Being a rouge with low hp ever hp you lose hurts. Especially if it is 20-40 damage.

With the current balance in the mod, a rogue (for example, this applies to everyone that can't cast spells) is going to die anyways, doesn't matter if they're at full health or half. The moment they run into a caster, they're toast. It's just one more spell, or one more round of IKD spam, or whatever. Not to mention that that is a huge advantage for casters, they can get everything but the armor, but a non-caster can get the armor, their weapon, and precious little else. Heck, I'd skip the armor even with a non-caster, the other equipment easily makes up for the damage you take.


Another issue that's being missed by just not buying the armor is you're no longer immune to the area effect damage that a caster from your team may cause. Currently you can just stand in the middle of a combat and let your mage fireball your enemies and not worry about being hurt.

Possibly, were there enough people on for that kind of situation to develop. As it is now though, you're lucky if there's another person on, let alone another person on the same team as you. So that really isn't worth giving up all the other equipment for.

Almuric
11-25-2003, 07:10 AM
With the current balance in the mod, a rogue (for example, this applies to everyone that can't cast spells) is going to die anyways, doesn't matter if they're at full health or half. The moment they run into a caster, they're toast. It's just one more spell, or one more round of IKD spam, or whatever. Not to mention that that is a huge advantage for casters, they can get everything but the armor, but a non-caster can get the armor, their weapon, and precious little else. Heck, I'd skip the armor even with a non-caster, the other equipment easily makes up for the damage you take.


So you are saying that casters dont need the armor?? Casters have some of the lowest hit points available. If I waste my endure elements just to keep from getting damaged by my home plane (instead of buying robes) then once I get on the battlefield the first mage to fireball me will kill me.

Also, everyone is missing one very important point:

The starting gold is high only because the armor is expensive. If the armor wasnt so expensive the starting gold would have been 150k less. If anyone wants to give me a better idea for giving all players the elemental resistances that are part of the theme of the mod then please post away.

Genocide
11-25-2003, 08:32 AM
Make a ring? that gives that immunity. A Ring that Looks REALLY different, given to players when they pick teams...a Ring that is no drop....


BUT you will have to redo all the armor

at least its an idea.

KamaCleric
11-25-2003, 01:06 PM
So you are saying that casters dont need the armor?? Casters have some of the lowest hit points available. If I waste my endure elements just to keep from getting damaged by my home plane (instead of buying robes) then once I get on the battlefield the first mage to fireball me will kill me.

That's what I'm saying, yes. Because if a caster doesn't get the armor, they have the money to get the items to pretty much ensure they never fail a save, even without going the 1 Pally Sorc way. And of course if you get 1 Monk, you don't have to worry about fireballs at all. And there's always Improved Expertise, and Improved Invisibility, and Spell Mantles, and a zillion other things to ensure a mage takes no damage. And clerics are even worse. And it's not mages that have the least HP, it's Bards and elven Rogues, due to the harder stat distribution and con penalty respectively.


The starting gold is high only because the armor is expensive. If the armor wasnt so expensive the starting gold would have been 150k less. If anyone wants to give me a better idea for giving all players the elemental resistances that are part of the theme of the mod then please post away.

*points to first post* Like I said, make an item for the creature armor slot or one of the other invisible slots, then write a script to give and equip the item on a player when they join a team. That'll give the elemental adjustments, and a player can't get rid of it, and don't have to choose between getting it or getting everything else.

Almuric
11-25-2003, 03:51 PM
From what I've read we need to wait until the 1.33 patch before we try to use the creature inventory slot. Believe me there will be an update when that comes. I'm betting its gonna be included with HotU so we'll get a massive update when that comes out. Prob cruise along like it is until then.

KamaCleric
11-25-2003, 07:28 PM
Hmm... I know I've seen places where they've used an invisible slot to give a player bonuses, such as the current sub-races systems, never really looked into it though, so I was just assuming they were using the creature armor slot.

Yeah, it's probably a good idea to wait and see what HotU changes seeing as it's sooooo close, altough that's gonna introdce soooo many more problems :|